920: Understanding Food Forest Design with Joshua Thayer.
In This Podcast:
Today’s episode features returning guest Joshua Thayer, an expert permaculture designer and author. We discuss how he helps communities across the U.S. and abroad design resilient food forests that restore local ecology and produce abundance. Whether you are in a Mediterranean climate, a drought-prone region like Phoenix, AZ, or a temperate landscape, Joshua brings strategies to help you turn your yard, homestead, or urban lot into a resilient, stacked, biodiverse food forest using practical steps from his new book, California Food Forests: Feeding the Future.Our Guest:
Joshua Thayer is a permaculture designer, author, and the founder of Native Sun Gardens in California. He has spent decades in hands-on design, helping communities implement sustainable strategies. His new book, California Food Forests: Feeding the Future, distills this vast experience into an accessible guide for anyone interested in creating a self-sustaining environment, applicable no matter where they live.
Listen in….
• What is Permaculture?
Joshua breaks down permaculture as “applied ecology”—designing edible and ecological systems that match the local site, climate, and natural patterns. In this episode we learn why permaculture is adaptive, not formulaic.
• What Exactly Is a Food Forest?
A food forest is more than an orchard. Joshua explains how layers—from canopy to shrubs to vines to roots to mycelium—work together to create resilience, fertility, pollinator habitat, and year-round harvests.
• Stacking Functions & Vertical Layering
Joshua details:
- How to place tall trees on the north side in the Northern Hemisphere
- How vertical stacking lets you grow way more in small spaces
- Why “meadow-style” mid-height diversity beats densely planting tall trees
• The 7 Layers of a Food Forest
We explore the classic permaculture layers:
- Canopy trees
- Sub-canopy trees
- Shrubs & brambles
- Herbaceous plants
- Groundcovers
- Root crops
- Vines & climbers
- (+ the mycelium layer!)
Joshua shares examples of plant combinations that thrive together and create symbiotic relationships.
• Mediterranean & Drought-Wise Design
Learn why California’s Mediterranean climate is a perfect teacher for:
- Water-wise food production
- Soils that need oxygen and drainage
- Selecting resilient varieties
- Planting drought-tolerant guilds
- Joshua also explains how these principles translated to a project in Virginia with soggy soil.
• How to Start a Food Forest in 100 Square Feet
Joshua’s favorite entry point:
- Start with a 10×10 ft “tile”
- One main tree (like apple, plum, avocado)
- Two supporting plants (berries + herbs)
- Add soil-building ground covers and root crops
- Make it simple, modular, repeatable.
• Top Mistakes New Growers Make
Joshua shares the big ones:
- Not starting because the project feels too big
- Planting too densely
- Creating too much shade too early
- Ignoring soil health
- Designing tall trees before establishing the mid-layer
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